Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
Hi, the truth is , I think they should accept the valuations if they have been aproved by the FCI,it is unfair that you have to re-do an xray, I completely understand where you are coming from, especially when using foreign males also. We are lucky in the sense that we have a vet in Granada that has a digitigal xray. With Linda( Nube) I got 3 copies of discs,( one for us to keep at home, one to send to the AEPME; and the third we paid the vets to send to the AVEPA) It is the first time we have sent to them and the we got the results/certificate back first also. Both grades were exactly the same also which was interesting to see- no descrepencies in difference. We sent it off to the AVEPA because we were planning to breed and wanted the result fast, and the AEPME results take time sometimes. We knew she had good hips because we exrayed her at 7 months to see how she was doing, and also the vet looked a the later xray saying her hips were fine but the grade had to be done by the experts of course. He knew she wasn't grave or d from looking at the xray and we expected a good outcome, in the end both of the xrays came out B. In the end she didn't get pregnant but at least we have our results, now we have two certificates. To evaluate in the AEPME its free, but to use the AVEPA it costs you money. First you have to pay for the special digital xray either way, thats around 70euros I think it cost us more or less, and to send it to the Aepme for evaluation its free for all members of the AEPME. I think its great that the foreign breeders come to Spain and show their dogs here also, they are all spanish mastins and it is also nice to be able to see them in "person" too, not just on photos. And the truth is its a hell of a trip to come so far, so maybe the AEPME should make some changes to make it a bit easier and accept their evaluated xrays. Maybe they could use one place in Europe to send all xrays to be evaluated? Just an idea, since they only want to use one place here, maybe it is an idea to suggest passing through only one establishment in Europe? It could be an idea to suggest to them, maybe the specialists that do the german sheps in germany for example? Maybe they would go for something like that?
Sally, the reluctance from breeders.... could be- maybe they feel that they are being discriminated by having only apto litters advertised. Meaning only the people that have apto dogs can advertise and thats discriminating against breeders who don't have apto litters, its about sales. And some obviously don't believe in the testing by the looks of it. The votes against lost by only 5 votes. That is a very high posiblity of nearly winning.
Registered Member #7 Joined: Thu Oct 25 2007, 10:23PM Posts: 7
It is oficila answer from vicepresidente of AEPME, Mr. Juan Silla :
Hola Lenka AEPME es la asociacion autorizada por la RSCE miembro de la FCI y por la JUNTA de CASTILLA y LEON que tiene la autorizacion del gobierno de ESPAÑA para velar por el MASTIN ESPAÑOL raza ESPAÑOLA. Somos el organismo que lleva todo el control de la raza en compañia de la RSCE. cualquier posible modificación del estandar o cualquier cosa que afecte al MASTIN ESPAÑOL tiene que tener la autorizacion de esta asociación a nivel Español e Internacional. Me parece muy bien que tambien pertenezcas a un club que representa a muchas razas. Si ese club al que perteneces no quiere reconocer nuestras evaluaciones me parece muy bien. Nosotros de momento no aceptamos las evaluaciones hechas por ningun centro que no sea el autorizado por la AEPME. sea este centro español o extranjero. Cuando haces las radiografias de displasia para tu club, haces una copia y la mandas a la AEPME para que nuestro centro de su evaluación, de esta manera no tendras que dormir al perro dos veces y si tienes el apto de nuestra asociacion podras participar en las monograficas de la AEPME. Como socia de AEPME tienes las mismas obligaciones que cualquier otro socio. Espero haber contestado a tus dudas. Se que no compartes estas cosas, pero hoy son asi mañana ya veremos. Un saludo Juan Silla
Registered Member #217 Joined: Thu Jun 04 2009, 07:34PM Posts: 21
I sent x-ray disc at the same time to our Finnish Kennel Club and to the Unoiversity of Leon. I got the results from Finland in one month, from Spain....I am still waiting, maybe when thet start to work again...maybe before christmas 2011??? I agree with Tracey that Carlanca is not a place to advertise litters, due to the fact that it appears so very seldom, but AEPME web-page should be open for foreign litters for member breeders..or not?
Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
Hi Antero, Of course foreign breeders have every right to announce their litters the same as spanish owners breeders do, but they must send their xrays to be evaluated by the AEPME. Unfortunately they will not allow any other results from any organisation outside of the AEPME. The time limit is something we all wish would go faster. Apparantly they have spoken to the university of Leon and they have promised faster results. They are closed in the summer months and will reopen in September. Apparantly all of the xrays recieved earlier this year in time to be analized before summer the people will get their results to be able to enter the nacional aepme show, without the results people can't enter as we all know! .We got ours for Linda ( Nube) given to us in person in Asturias because I said we were going and if it was ready if he could give it to me in person. The reason we sent ours also to the AVEPA was because we were in a hurry for the results, but it can be very frustrating for people who are waiting on results that it can take so much time, so there are people who can't have litters advertised even if the dogs are exrayed until they have results and sometimes it has taken a long time to recieve results, even though people know their dogs are apt until they get the certificate from the uni, also the uni closes down for a couple of months so every thing is on hold then too- then nothing can be advertised if results aren't given in time, its all beaucratic. One spanish breeder has already mentioned to the aepme about having results from the avepa being recognised and got the same answer as Lenka about that they will only use recognize the one from the Leon university. Even if breeders / owners choose to pay for the xrays to be evaluated by the avepa to get the results faster they will not recognise them so the spanish breeders are in the same boat as the foreign when they use other evaluation centres. The time it takes for the University to do the evaluations was mentioned, and promises have made that things will go faster from September onwards;) I suppose we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. If things don't go any faster/ better then I suppose its up to the members spanish and foreign that want to have this changed to peticion changes in the next meeting by sending a letter to be read by the junta directiva.
Registered Member #8 Joined: Fri Oct 26 2007, 11:15AM Posts: 110
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* I don't know why the veterinary faculty of Léon is chosen for the official assessment of the HD X-photo's, but I think it's a good thing that this job is centralized (only ONE organizing body for all the X-photo's in all of Spain) . I hope that those stories about corruption are exaggerated. In fact, I think they are. In the early days of X-research for the mastín/ AEPME all work was done by J.L. Pazos Boluda. He had a good reputation for being incorruptible. Actually, in those days there apparently were lots of attempts to cheat with the results of the X-photos. That can maybe be explained by the fact that -so I am told- first there was a lot of euphoria when the possibility of X-rays for mastines arose, but as soon as the results of those X-rays came out, there was not much of enthusiasm left ... . That leads to the following question: => In the early days the HD-situation of the ME was not really ideal, but how about the situation of our breed in Spain TODAY ?? Who has something of a clue on the situation as it is NOW ?? The only thing we know is that some mastines are APTO and some are not. Mastines with very good or excellent hips are often "well-advertised", but they are the exceptions, aren't they ?? * Maybe -just maybe, I'm not sure- the veterinary faculty is not the problem, but rather the possible solution to the problem. Maybe someone (the board of the AEPME or any other mastinero) just should ask them which of the foreign HD-results THEY, as professionals, would recognize ?? All results with a FCI-recognition, or only a few selected ... ? I would like to hear their opinion ... I agree with Sally on the point that AEPME should learn to trust the rest of the world. A clear signal from the faculty could change the mind of the board. I hope. * I don't agree with Sally that AEPME should STOP announcing the litters. They should continue to do so in the future. At this moment it is indicated whether or not a parent/ the parents are APTO or not. Maybe in the future it will be indicated which grade (A, B, C, D, E,) exactely the parents have. The possibility to voluntary publish those results/grades IN THE OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS may be an interesting step in the good direction. * About disqualifying mastines with "E-hips"=> that is a beautiful dream. But only a dream. Extremely very seldom a dog is disqualified. Too often a judge not even bothers to write a few words about the poor condition of a dog he has to judge ... I sincerely hope that will change in the future (but I'm not very optimistic ...) * The point of foreign delegates can not be implemented because the AEPME-estatutos very clearly states that the "'ambito territorial" of the AEPME is (just) Spain. * However, the board won't get away that easy on another point: In his letter to Lenka D. Silla puts a LOT of emphasis on that "Spanish" aspect of AEPME. Well, when it comes to mastines AEPME-estatutos states very clear that the goal of our club (with many foreign members in it) is "La difusión, selectión, y mejora de esta raza ,(etcetera)". The idea behind HD-policy is a part of that "mejora"-part and there is no ground whatsoever to make it more difficult or impossible for serious foreign breeders or stud-owners than to Spanish breeders or stud-owners (I see, however, no reason why more than one organization for each country should be allowed to do the official X-ray-test). (BTW: did I understand it right ? Is the AEPME -and only AEPME- qualified/ entitled to re-write the breedstandard ??). ** Independendly of what AEPME does: mastín-owners are entitled to publish the results of the official X-ray-test of their dogs. And they should consider doing that on a "centralized" website. That will provide a first clue on the situation of our breed on the point of "hip-health". ** However: the first time I saw an official Spanish HD-result I was very disappointed, because it only says something about the Grade (A, B, C, D, E) ...
[ Edited Mon Aug 02 2010, 02:15PM ] Frans Netherlands / Países Bajos
Registered Member #149 Joined: Sun Sep 07 2008, 07:49PM Posts: 134
In the editorial of the latest Carlanca number 53- (me translating into english for people who have recieved and don't understand spanish- )
it says ... in the assembly on the 26th of June 2010- that they presented the new certificate of the displasia exray which is now recognised by the FCI- signed by the evaluation centre of the AEPME in this moment is the faculty of vetinary in Leon and that this certificate will be valid internationally. This will be in place from September 2010. It says, thanks to this change, all of the foreign members of the association will have an oficial displasia xray certificate which will be recognised by their country of origin and also for the breeding plan of the AEPME, to be able to announce their litters in the associations AEPME webpage. Also having this certificate now have the autorization to participate in the class intermedias and abiertas -( intermediate and open class) in the AEPME national monografic which has CAC.
Vets have called- another emergancy and Canela is going to give blood to save the life of another dog, this is now the 4th time she has donated her blood. I am so proud of her, and also proud to help other animals by letting the vet use our Canelas blood. They need dogs that weigh over 40 kilos to do transfusions.
Sally, I accidentally pressed the submit button twice on my comment about the stray Mastin. I thought it didn't go through and pressed twice. . I can't delete the extra comment , so can you remove it for me , Thanks !
hi Franz, are you referring to the last two posts on the forum ? I have put them in spanish cause its about two monografic shows here in Spain, I copied and pasted them, one was an email that came to me, and the other was to help a friend that has organized one in Asturias, because they haven't got it on the AEPME page yet. So I thought I would just open a couple of posts to let spanish mastin owners know incase they would like to go and compete or go and watch. At the mo, I haven't got time to translate, will try and do it later on ok. xx
Sally I wrote a thread on the heat wave nearly a year ago, to move it up to the forum box again I have written a bit more so people can see it and remind them. I will see if I can find any links on it if you can't find it ok. xxx
Tracey, you are right ... It is not very hot here in Denmark, so I just forget that it is different in other countries. I think you sent a link in Spanish about about heatwaves / golpe de calor last summer, didn't you? I will try to find it,,, Thanks for reminding me Tracey
Hi Sally, Its starting to really heat up here now , so I think its a good idea to put your warning article up about heatwaves / golpe de calor for the mastin owners to read and to remind them of. un beso Trace xxx
Hi Sally, Think its about time to put the warning again about heat with mastines,(golpes de calor) the weather is starting to warm up here lots! hugs Trace x
The best advice will probably be: learn to live with it ! Some mastines have it; others don't ... Is she "just moving the air" when she is snoring ?? Nothing can be done ... Does she also makes the floor vibrate ?? Then give her a mattress to lay on ...
My beautifull mastin female sleeps with us inside the house. She snores like crazy!!! Does anybody have a sugestion or advice?? Its really funny but also imposible to sleep. Help!
My beautifull mastin female sleeps with us inside the house. She snores like crazy!!! Does anybody have a sugestion or advice?? Its really funny but also imposiible to sleep. Help!
I wonder if there is any difference in longetivity between mastines who work with / guard livestock for a living compared to those that are strictly show ring dogs or pets. Has anyone studied this? It seems to me, if a dog is allowed lots of room to safely roam and exercise, it can only assist in his living to a ripe old age. I wonder if having a 'mission' to protection some stock helps a mastine 'hang on' and live longer....? Not that competition in the ring isn't a 'mission' and I am sure there are dogs who live to show and parade before judges and are very happy, healthy dogs who live long lives.... Just pondering this...that's all... !
Do you suppose the foundation stock of today's breed when AEPME was formed, came out of a small gene pool and was there a lot of line-breeding going on? would that be the reason there are so many problems in the breed now?
I think health, temperament and workability should come first and conformation second priority. Breeders ought to goal for the "entire package" if you know what I mean..
Frans, as usual I did not express myself very well I am sure many mastines live more than 6-7 years, but many of the mastines I saw at shows - and many of the mastines who had great results in the shows - suddenly past away at the age 6-7... Quite too many... I am sure (hope) that breeders take things like overall health and longevity very serious and want to integrate these factors in their breeding-plans... I think it would be a great idea to publish "lineages" of mastines that reach a GOOD, ACCEPTABLE age instead of lineages of mastines that "produce" champions...
Sally, you say that dying at six, seven years of age is starting to become the norm. I really hope that's not correct. I also know that there are (several ? many ?) breeders -as well in Spain as outside Spain- that take things like overall health and longevity very serious and want to integrate these factors in their breeding-plans. Hmm ... maybe we should publish "lineages" of mastines that reach a GOOD, ACCEPTABLE age instead of lineages of mastines that "produce" champions. Shall we start with reviving the forum-topic on "life expectancy for mastines" ... ?
Frans, it may be a sad story behind the photo of me and Toro - the hard thing for me and my son was to loose him at such a young age... 6 years of age is not an acceptable life expectancy for a mastín. Unfortunately, Toro's untimely death is not unique. It's unfortunately not uncommon that Mastines die around age five, six seven years. That is actually quite before it approaches the norm. It's scary, especially because there just does not seem to be any interest in exploring why these Mastines had such a short lifetime.
MastinMel, yes I had a nice 'happy' birthday - NO, everthing did not went well, I crossed the line - and entered into the 'flock' of 'old people' If you ever go to Spain, and with your 'obvious passion' about the Mastín español, you really should visit Spain sometime (might give you quite a new opinion about the breed) ... it would be a very good idea to visit Gregorio, he is on my top list too... - but remember, there are many breeders/shepherds/owners in Spain that are very much 'worth a visit'
Sally, It is a very sad story behind the picture of you and Toro on the frontpage, but the picture as such is great. Not everyone who lost his (or her) mastín has a "last memento" like this.
Sorry this is late, Sally (haven't been here in a while) - hope you had a happy birthday and all went well! If I ever get to Spain Gregorio of Abelgas will be on top of the list of breeders to meet as I am quite impressed with his mastines!
[ Mastin Espanol International ]
Litter announcements (foreign members) of AEPME - Auncias camadas (socios extranjeros) de AEPME
. That leads to the following question:
I 
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Carlos, will you put a photograph of Rufo at a show on mastininfo or mastingallery ? It would be very nice to see the winner 
Does she also makes the floor vibrate ?? Then give her a mattress to lay on ... 
